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Rick Carpiniello and Sam Borden debate the the hottest topics in sports

Question #147: Who’s your top three?

January
28

I was watching the MLB Network for a while after the Rangers game last night, and they were showing some of Ken Burns’ documentary—which is obviously going to be a major staple for the fledgling network. It was a lengthy show about Babe Ruth and his contribution to the game of baseball as the person most responsible for it becoming such a big piece of Americana.

At the end, Burns claimed that Ruth is still the greatest player in baseball history. You can argue whomever you want after him: Joe DiMaggio, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Barry Bonds, he said, but Ruth is No. 1.

I noticed that all of those guys are/were outfielders. So a question for a slow and snowy day: If you had to pick a starting outfield from all the players in the history of baseball, which three would you choose?

There are obviously others, notably Hank Aaron, and to a lot of bandwagon-jumping Yankees fans from the late 1990s, Paul O’Neill. But it’s an awesome group, one in which magnificent Hall of Famers like Frank Robinson or Ken Griffey Jr. or Roberto Clemente or Reggie Jackson (or for that matter, Mantle) aren’t even really in the argument.

I’ll start it off with mine: Bonds in LF, Mays in CF, Ruth in RF. I’m not taking steroids or HGH into account here. Just who was the best, simple as that.

Who would you pick?

10:45 a.m., Sam says:
Sam Borden

Great, great question, Carp. Absolutely perfect for a day where everyone should stay inside, drink something hot and think about the world of sports with us. FACEOFF: We’re the snow-day remedy!

Anyway, it’s hard to argue with your three but off the top of my head, I’d probably go with this:

Aaron, Mays, Ruth. While I can respect the pick of Bonds, I think Aaron was the embodiment of the slugging outfielder and his consistency was even greater than Bonds; Aaron is the only player to hit 30 or more homers in a season 15 times.

Let me also put in a plug for Ty Cobb. If we’re ignoring off-the-field issues (like Bonds’ alleged steroids use) than we can also ignore Cobb’s raging racism and hideous temper. Although Cobb didn’t hit homers like Ruth, he was as good a hitter as Pete Rose or, in modern times, Ichiro. Cobb had almost 4200 hits and held the single-season hit record for 84 years. Not bad. Who just misses out on your list?

CARP SAYS:

Teddy Ballgame. My dad always goes on and on about DiMaggio, and I assume he was the best centerfielder ever behind Mays, and what he did in cavernous old Yankee Stadium, where a right-handed batter faced 460-foot outs or doubles, is incredible.

But if you look at Ted Williams numbers, then figure that he missed out on five full seasons because of military service, Wow! He’d have hit more than 600 homers to go with his BA that was sometimes over .400. Probably the greatest pure hitter the game has ever seen.

And of course, my fave all-time was The Mick, and if he’d stayed healthy maybe he’d have been in there instead of Mays because when he was a young man he was not only the most powerful slugger, but a great hitter and, they say, the fastest player home to first, people had ever seen.

Can’t argue with Hammerin’ Hank, though. Nice pick, Sam.

11:25 a.m., Sam says:
Sam Borden

Johnny Pinstripes makes an interesting point in the comments about the place of the modern player in these types of discussions (and, Johnny, as to your idea of ranking the top three at every position: I like it. Let’s see how many of these snowy days we get!).

In the outfielder discussion, you’d have to consider Manny Ramirez. I know he’s hardly a defensive wizard, but Ramirez will go down as one of the greatest pure hitters of all time. He’s a better hitter than Reggie for sure, and same with Griffey. Junior was clearly a better fielder, but at the plate I think it’s not even close.

Ichiro is another one – unbelievable fielder and, if he’d played in America his whole career, would probably have broken Rose’s hits record. That’s hard to ignore. Who am I leaving out?

 CARP SAYS:

 I mentioned Frank Robinson and Clemente. You could add Stan “The Man” Musial, Al Simmons, Yaz, Cobb, Hack Wilson, Al Kaline, Tony Gwynn, Wee Willie Keeler, Mel Ott, Paul Waner, Rickey Henderson.

Endy Chavez. Melky Cabrera.

This entry was posted on Wednesday, January 28th, 2009 at 9:59 am by Carp. |

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11 Responses to “Question #147: Who’s your top three?”

  1. Johnny Pinstripes

    I think that Ruth and Mays should be on almost everyone’s list. It’s that third outfield spot that will vary from person to person. In my opinion my third outfielder is Ty Cobb by a narrow margin. I have Ted Williams, Aaron and DiMaggio juuustt narrowly behind, although i probably could be swayed one way or another to include one of them.

    We should do a list of the top 3 all time players position-by-position… it would be interesting to see what everyone says when comparing modern players to old timers… i wonder if Arod or Pujols would make anyones lists…

  2. Johnny Pinstripes

    I’d love to put Albert Pujols in this discussion, but i’d also be projecting what i think he’d do over the next 8-10 years and placing it next to a completed body of work like let’s say, Jimmie Foxx… i think if you were to talk about all time great first basemen, Foxx would be near the top of the list for sure. If you look at the numbers Pujols has put up over his first 8 seasons he’s right there with Foxx… the issue is that Foxx did it for much longer. Do i think Pujols will stay on track? Absolutely, so i’d throw him in there…

    I absolutely agree with Manny Ramirez being in the discussion when comparing players from yesterday and today. He is probably the greatest run producer of the past 20 years not associated with Balco (cheap shot). I would also include Tony Gwynn for probably being the best pure hitter of my lifetime(1984), in my opinion… i’d also include Arod and Ichiro from today’s players.

    Offensive players- Statistical all time greats
    Pujols, Arod, Ichiro, Gwynn (retired somewhat recently)

    Other player i considered: Vlad Guerrero because he is a freak of nature

  3. afan

    I think Ruth and Mays are among the three. Would Shoeless Joe Jackson or Tris Speaker qualify as the third outfielder?
    Wasn’t Speaker considered better defensively than Ty Cobb.

  4. sunny615

    My list:

    1: Babe Ruth

    AVG: .342
    G: 2503
    AB: 8399
    R: 2174
    H: 2873
    HR: 714
    RBI: 1983
    SB: 123
    OBP: .474
    SLG: .690
    OPS+ 207
    (just insane)

    2. Hank Aaron

    AVG: .305
    G: 3298
    AB: 12364
    R: 2174
    H: 3771
    HR: 755
    RBI: 2297
    SB: 240
    OBP: .374
    SLG: .555
    OPS+ 155

    3. Willie Mays

    AVG: .302
    G: 2992
    AB: 10881
    R: 2062
    H: 3283
    HR: 660
    RBI: 1903
    SB: 338
    OBP: .384
    SLG: .557
    OPS+ 156

    Honorable Mention:
    in non particular order

    a. Joe DiMaggio

    AVG: .325
    G: 1736
    AB: 6821
    R: 1390
    H: 2214
    HR: 521
    RBI: 1537
    SB: 30
    OBP: .398
    SLG: .579
    OPS+ 155

    b. Ted Williams

    AVG: .344
    G: 2292
    AB: 7706
    R: 1798
    H: 2654
    HR: 521
    RBI: 1839
    SB: 24
    OBP: .482
    SLG: .634
    OPS+ 191

    c. Ty Cobb

    AVG: .367
    G: 3033
    AB: 11429
    R: 2245
    H: 4191
    HR: 117
    RBI: 727
    SB: 892
    OBP: .433
    SLG: .512
    OPS+ 167

  5. sunny615

    NO particular order…

    WHERE’S THE EDIT BUTTON??!?!?!??

  6. Rick Carpiniello

    I don’t think DiMag had 521 HRs, and I’m surprised if he only had 30 SBs.

  7. sunny615

    whoops! Dimaggion had 361. He did have only 30 SB. He was also only caught 9 times.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml

  8. sunny615

    EDIT!!

    Dimaggio had 261 dingers… oy

  9. sunny615

    361 dingers… christ! It’s after midnight… can’t type!

  10. Cardinals Albert Pujols Authentic Jerseys

    G’day!
    As an Australia-based STL Cardinals fan, I found your blog on google and read a few of your other Cardinals posts.
    I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.

  11. Seattle Mariners Hat Wearer

    As an Australia-based Mariners fan, I found your blog on google and read a few of your other Mariners posts.
    I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.

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About the author
Sam BordenSam Borden grew up in Larchmont, graduated from Mamaroneck High School and has spent all 29 years of his life following the local sports scene. The drama of sports has always fascinated him, and his columns are designed to take a side or tell a story. The best days are the ones where he gets to do both.
Rick CarpinielloRick Carpiniello grew up in lower Westchester and began working in The Journal News' sports department (back when it was The Reporter Dispatch and eight other newspapers) in October of 1977 after a year of covering high school sports as a stringer. For more than 20 years he covered the New York Rangers and the National Hockey League. Carpiniello has been writing columns on everything from local sports to the big leagues since 2002.
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