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Rick Carpiniello and Sam Borden debate the the hottest topics in sports

Question #29: License to sit

July
16

I hear that the football Giants are going to have something new to say about their personal seat licenses tomorrow. I’ve already heard from some of you and what you think about the idea of paying between $1,000 and $20,000 for the right to then buy season tickets, which by the way, are going to be more expensive, in the new stadium.

I’d love to hear from more of you guys. As you can imagine, most of the mail and email I’ve received is extremely negative, and I’ve already written that I think it’s a disgrace for the Giants to treat their fans this way, and that in my opinion this would not have ever happened if Mr. Wellington Mara was still alive.

So, what do you have to say about it?

11:44 p.m., Sam says:
Sam Borden

I don’t think there’s a sports fan alive who likes the idea of paying for PSL’s, other than maybe the ones who are on the decades-long waiting list for Giants season tix and can now purchase a PSL from someone else and, thus, finally get their own season tix.

That said, my reaction to PSL’s in general is the same as it is most of the time people complain about the cost of sporting events these days: Blame America.

The truth is that it’s hard to fault any business for doing something that makes money in a capitalist society, particularly if the consumer allows it to be done by participating. This isn’t gasoline or milk or bread we’re talking about – Giants tickets (or any tickets) are not life staples. No one forces people to buy them. So if the Giants do PSL’s and they’re able to get people to pay for them and still fill up their brand new stadium, how upset can I really get? Are they alienating fans? I guess they are (because I hear from plenty that are upset) but they clearly aren’t alienating so many that their fan base has completely eroded. Clearly some fans are willing to go along with this whole thing. A lot of fans, in fact.

A decade ago the Oakland Raiders did PSL’s and some fans snapped them up right at the start. Years later, the Raiders had to abandon the PSL program entirely (too bad for those folks who’d already paid) because they couldn’t sell out their stadium. The fans had stopped coming. In other words, the fans let the Raiders know that PSL’s wouldn’t work – and so they disappeared.

Will that happen to the Giants? Somehow, I doubt it. If it does, then I’ll have no problem calling out the Giants for doing something that very clearly turned their fans against them. But if it doesn’t, and the new Meadowlands is packed to the brim for years and years to come, then I’ve got a hard time coming down too hard on the organization. After all, they’re just being absolutely American.

Carp says:

Is it really absolutely American to build a fanbase with trust, a fanbase so unbelievably loyal through so many bad years, a fanbase that has already been kicked around from Yankee Stadium to New Haven to New Jersey, and then to tell a great percentage of that fanbase: “If you can’t afford it, get out! We’ll go find somebody richer to take your place?”

It’s pretty sad if it is. It’s a money-grab, pure and simple. Making people pay for their love. It’s like a church that fills up every Sunday suddenly selling tickets to get in. Is that American?

THURSDAY NIGHT UPDATE:

I just finished a column for The Journal News and LoHud.com tomorrow on the Giants’ personal seat license program.

I spoke with John Mara, and with some long-time fans who will have to pay a lot more if they want to go to Giants games in 2010.

Jeff Gold provided the basics on the new seat prices and PSL costs.

The letters are going out tomorrow, Friday, in batches of 5,000 letters at a time. The Giants promise that they are doing it in batches so that they can handle the questions that season-ticket holders are sure to have, and that nobody will get any first-come, first-served priority until all of the current season-ticket holders have received their letters and everybody has had time to have questions answered and to return their forms and requests for 2010.

But, if you want an early preview on what to expect cost-wise, seat-wise, PSL-wise, stadium-wise in 2010, click here.

10:14 a.m., Sam says:
Sam Borden

Carp, I’m not saying that PSLs are palatable or the right thing to do, just that it’s easy to get in an uproar over something that charges “the average fan” a lot of money even though the reality is that the team is simply following a principal that, for the most part, Americans encourage (and even praise). That is what business is all about and, truthfully, most fans need to be reminded that the teams they root for are in business, not some sort of sports vacuum.

Should it be that way? That’s a question we can debate at some point later this summer, but it’s the reality. You did a great job with your column about PSLs and some of the stories you hear about fans who can’t afford to keep their seats are incredibly sad (tickets that have been passed down for generations being lost, etc.); I’m not saying I don’t feel for them. I do. But I also understand the premise behind the decision, so while I can be upset at the Giants for what they are doing, I can’t be that enraged over the thought process that led them to it.

(Oh, and by the way, the church analogy doesn’t exactly work since churches are free to get into on regular basis and Giants Stadium has never been free to enter. A better example would be a country club charging an initiation fee—is there outrage over that? Essentially, you’re paying the initiation fee for the right to pay your yearly dues, much the same way you pay the PSL for the right to pay for season tickets. Is Winged Foot as wrong as the New York Giants?)

This entry was posted on Wednesday, July 16th, 2008 at 6:56 pm by Carp. |

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5 Responses to “Question #29: License to sit”

  1. sunny615

    Not really much argument from me here. Personally, I think the PSL’s are just another way of pinching the public’s pockets for profit. Is it really any different that the new Yankee Stadiums jacked up prices? Not really – other than this is a way to get people to buy the right to buy season tickets versus actually just buying the season tickets. It’s a sad sad day for fandom but if there are fans out there stupid enough to buy them, then who’s really to blame here? It’s not like gasoline where I have to fill up my tank every couple of day so I can commute to work. I don’t have to buy tickets… so if the Giants can squeeze more $$ out of their (probably p.o.’ed) fans, then more power to ‘em. The fans do have the ability to not buy them. I don’t think the NY Giants are being “American”, but they are just like every other sport group in America – a business first, a sports team last and milking the fans for every last penny.

  2. Rick Carpiniello

    Sunny, you are always the voice of reason (or almost always, I think). It is extortion. The Giants wouldn’t dare do this if they didn’t have hundreds of thousands of fans waiting on a list to buy season tickets. They know they can squeeze the current customers hard because there are plenty of other suckers (or just plain wealthy fans) out there willing to pay.

  3. sunny615

    Thanks Carp!

    Kind of an interesting coincidence tho that they decided to initiate this plan after the SuperBowl win eh?

  4. Rick Carpiniello

    They insist that it’s totally about the cost of the new stadium (1.6 billion, up from the original price of $800 million or so) and that they’d be doing this even if they’d been 4-12 last year. Of course, the outcry would have been somewhat more loud and angry if they’d been 4-12, don’t you think?

    PS, as much as this PSL idea sickens me, I have a hard time not believing the sincerity of John Mara, who is truly a good man like his dad, and one who surely agonized over this decision.

  5. sunny615

    I’m sure the cost of the stadium had something to do with it, but there are better/sneakier ways to milk the fan – raising ticket prices, concessions, memorabilia, etc… (which I’m sure they’ve also done) than starting the PSL system.

    If the Giants had been 4-12, there would have been a louder outcry, but still not boycott worthy (Raiders). NY fans are a fiesty group (myself included) and the fan base is large enough to compensate for any “slighted” fan. They would have gotten away with it no matter what – short of selling the team or signing Michael Vick.

    While John Mara is probably a good man, that good nature probably didn’t squash his business instincts. Let me put it to you this way… if you owned a coffee shop and your business partner told you you could turn a section of your shop into a reserve only section and get people to pay an extra $20 an hour to sit there and still have people lined up out the door, you’d do it – good owner or not… wouldn’t you? It’d be kind of foolish not to. The good business man knows where the line that fans/patrons will not cross (in terms of cost) is… and in NY, the PSL does not cross that line… yet. Are the Mara’s putting out a good product? Sure are… Superbowl champs! But the fans are going to pay through the nose for it because they’re all willing to.

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Rick Carpiniello and Sam Borden debate the hottest topics in sports.

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About the author
Sam BordenSam Borden grew up in Larchmont, graduated from Mamaroneck High School and has spent all 29 years of his life following the local sports scene. The drama of sports has always fascinated him, and his columns are designed to take a side or tell a story. The best days are the ones where he gets to do both.
Rick CarpinielloRick Carpiniello grew up in lower Westchester and began working in The Journal News' sports department (back when it was The Reporter Dispatch and eight other newspapers) in October of 1977 after a year of covering high school sports as a stringer. For more than 20 years he covered the New York Rangers and the National Hockey League. Carpiniello has been writing columns on everything from local sports to the big leagues since 2002.
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